I am all for animal rights.
I think endangered animals should be protected by the law.
I think hurting endangered animals is a crime.
However, I am not against testing medications on rodents.
First of all, before we even think about animal rights, we need to consider human rights.
Crazy, huh?
Let me see... Where in the world are human rights being violated...
Let's make a list:
1.Abu Ghraib.
Allow me to quote:
"... remember, this is just what the military could confirm as having happened:
a. (S) Punching, slapping, and kicking detainees; jumping on their naked feet;
b. (S) Videotaping and photographing naked male and female detainees;
c. (S) Forcibly arranging detainees in various sexually explicit positions for photographing;
d. (S) Forcing detainees to remove their clothing and keeping them naked for several days at a time;
e. (S) Forcing naked male detainees to wear women's underwear;
f. (S) Forcing groups of male detainees to masturbate themselves while being photographed and videotaped;
g. (S) Arranging naked male detainees in a pile and then jumping on them;
h. (S) Positioning a naked detainee on a MRE Box, with a sandbag on his head, and attaching wires to his fingers, toes, and penis to simulate electric torture;
i. (S) Writing "I am a Rapest" (sic) on the leg of a detainee alleged to have forcibly raped a 15-year old fellow detainee, and then photographing him naked;
j. (S) Placing a dog chain or strap around a naked detainee's neck and having a female Soldier pose for a picture;
k. (S) A male MP guard having sex with a female detainee;
l. (S) Using military working dogs (without muzzles) to intimidate and frighten detainees, and in at least one case biting and severely injuring a detainee;
m. (S) Taking photographs of dead Iraqi detainees.
a. (U) Breaking chemical lights and pouring the phosphoric liquid on detainees;
b. (U) Threatening detainees with a charged 9mm pistol;
c. (U) Pouring cold water on naked detainees;
d. (U) Beating detainees with a broom handle and a chair;
e. (U) Threatening male detainees with rape;
f. (U) Allowing a military police guard to stitch the wound of a detainee who was injured after being slammed against the wall in his cell;
g. (U) Sodomizing a detainee with a chemical light and perhaps a broom stick.
h. (U) Using military working dogs to frighten and intimidate detainees with threats of attack, and in one instance actually biting a detainee. "
2.Guantanamo Bay.
3.Darfur.
4.Rwanda.
I could go on forever.
Human rights are being violated everywhere. All the time.
And yet people seem to get more worked up about testing a drug on rats.
Don't they see the medications being tested will maybe save someone's life?
Wait a minute.. I'm being silly!
We can go test drugs on sick children in Nigeria!
We don't even have to tell the parents! Brilliant!
People in third world countries don't really deserve to live, anyway.
ubergirl
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31 comments:
This is a brilliant post .. and I totally agree with you ...
Double standards are ruling the world these days and we see them popping up in everything ..
Human rights become the least important only when you are dealing with "humans" from the third world .. maybe they will call for a global trend to stop calling them humans so that they can violate their rights without any worries .. not that they worry when they do that now ...
SAD!
Ive been wondering of the exact same thing!
I remember back in 2002 when the US invaded Afghanistan, while the military bombed the country back to the stone age, people were shitting in their pants over a bunch of animals (especially a lion) that were trapped in a local rundown zoo.
The total disregard for human life by the people of a "lone superpower" was absolutely pathetic. And this is coming from someone who was born and lived there.
There is a compromise but nobody chooses to take it. We have the technology to clone human cells, we can create human tissues and test on them, nobody gets hurt, no animals, no humans, and you find a cure.
Animal testing does work but not always, I can't remember what it was, but something which worked on guinea pigs, didn't on humans, so to make everyone happy it would just be easier to test on lab-produced human tissue...
It's just, they are too busy investing money in WIPING OUT the entire northen hemisphere with nuclear bombs, than actually putting some in for medical research...
Makes me sick
"we can create human tissues and test on them"___However, creating whole organs, which is what would be needed for most tests, is still in the very early experimental stage. As much testing as possible is done on tissue cultures, but it can only tell you so much. Sooner or later you have to test on whole organisms. Should we go straight from cells in dishes to testing on patients (or on Nigerian children)? Or would it be safer to test on mice first?
Nay I'm not saying to test directly on humans and I'm not entirely against animal testing, (just if it is for cosmetic purposes). Just saying that there is an alternative for those exaggerated animal lovers...
Heh... You can never please everyone =(
Wow, that pfizer thing was sick. They should be sued.
It seems like the only people that care about sick and dying children in Africa these days are celebrities :s
'Cuz the rich and powerful governments sure dont. Lil asaf el shadeed.
Ubergirl, *laughing* You point your chubby little finger at the Abu Ghraib thing while in your very own country you still traffic in human slavery (though it was supposed to be banned in the 60's).
Your country cuts the heads, hands and feet off of people. There are public floggings on Friday's.
Torture in Saudi jails is reported in western media.
Rape of your women can end up with the woman's family murdering her to " save family honor".
Let's see, what else....Oh yes, you can't vote.
Beatings of women are common but not often reported. Divorce for Saudi women is difficult. You are shamed if you are divorced.
Your family can force you to give up your children to your ex husband because your "worth" as a muslim woman is half that of a man.
The list goes on and on. You are cute in your helpless rantings.
it's like you lived in saudi you curious cunt
George: (Can I call you George, by the way?)
Oh, we are but ignorant Arabs. Barbarianism is expected of us. You Westerners should leave the torture of innocent prisoners to us. We know what we're doing.
By the way, your ignorance has far surpassed that of any Saudi.
I'm not even going to address any of the complete lies you have listed.
Ubergirl, I agree that testing medicines on animals should be ok but quite often testing becomes... so "gratuitous"... they get tests for every silly thing (not to mention cosmetics). Take a look at this site and tell me what you think...
http://www.femfatalities.com/stupidExperiments.asp
I don't think it's an 'either/or'. We test on animals or we abuse prisoners. I don't see how the two situations are linked.
It is an open secret. Drugs are already tested on humans and they are tested on children everyday. When you read the possible side effects and it says 'may cause liver damage, death' etc. How do you think they know that?
This link is very interesting.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/programmes/this_world/4038375.stm
But Ubergirl, many Saudi's are very well educated; such as yourself. Please feel free to refute any of the statements I have made. Having lived among Saudis for a few years I believe I have learned a few things...though that devlish sun may have fried my eye sockets a bit.
Anonymous: I meant that before we even think about animal rights we need to fight for human rights.
I hate people who complain about how we shouldn't eat beef because animals have a right to live and bla bla...
That's all fine and dandy, but humans should be looking at how many other humans die and/or suffer unnecessarily before even thinking about cows.
George: You always come up with horrible things to say about Saudi Arabia. You say you lived among Saudis and I find that very hard to believe, since all your little stories seem to me like those streotypical (mostly fictional) stories the Western media enjoys telling.
And even if all the things you said were true (which they're not), it does not at all justify ONE of the things that's happening in Abu Ghraib.
ubergirl - the beheadings are in all the Saudi papers. As is EVERYTHING else curious george has spoken of. Or are you saying that the Saudi media is owned by westerners?
If people do not want to eat beef because they worry about killing a cow that is up to them and it is narrow minded to hate them for it.
Caring about people does not stop me caring about animals or the other way around. It is a false dichotomy.
Tsk Tsk Tsk Ubergirl. None of what I have stated is a falsehood. I am not bothered by your claims that none of what I have said ever happens in the KSA. Anyone that has lived there or reads Saudi news or Quran knows the factoids.
Not only that, but Saudi TV has shows on how to properly beat your wife. Life can be entertaining.
curious george how should one properly beat his wife?
You'd have to ask a Mullah.
Anonymous: I don't "hate" anyone for anything. And people have the right to care about both animals and humans at the same time.
What I am referring to is people who campaign for animal rights and not human rights.
I believe we must take care of human rights first.
George and all the rest of you anons:
"Your country cuts the heads, hands and feet off of people. There are public floggings on Friday's."
NOT TRUE. There are NO beheadings. And if a person steals three times and gets caught their hand is cut off, true. However, this happens very rarely. People's feet are not cut off.
Last year there was an interview with a man that was serving ten years in prison for stealing a pair of jeans in the United States. I think that is absurd. There are laws like this all over the world, it's not just Saudi Arabia.
"Torture in Saudi jails is reported in western media."
Western media again. They are so quick to point out what the rest of the world is doing wrong.
Torture in Abu Ghraib is reported as well, and it is FAAAR worse than anything that could ever happen in a Saudi prison. I don't see anyone (except me) expressing their anger. Or is it okay for Westerners to torture Iraqis? Are Iraqis not as human as Ameircan sodiers?
"Rape of your women can end up with the woman's family murdering her to " save family honor". "
That has never happened.
I know two girls who were raped, and one that was attacked. The rapists and the attacker are now in jail, waiting to serve their sentences. The girls are in therapy and are doing fine. They attend social getherings, and NO their parents don't want to murder them.
This accusation is something out of a Jean Sasson book, and it shows you know nothing about Saudi Arabia except what the Western media is telling you.
"Beatings of women are common but not often reported. Divorce for Saudi women is difficult. You are shamed if you are divorced."
Beatings of women are common all over the world, unfortunately.
And divorce is not so difficult, nor is a woman "shamed" if she is divorced. I know many divorced women who live their lives as they did when they were married (and before they were married.)
It looks as though you are great fans of Jean Sasson :)
Your family can force you to give up your children to your ex husband
NOT TRUE. ALL (yes ALL) of the divorced women I know live with their kids.
your "worth" as a muslim woman is half that of a man.
Where do you get this stuff?
Honestly.
I will not answer to any more accusations. You people are sick. You think your country is perfect? I have been all over the world, and there are problems everywhere. Sure, you might think Saudi Arabia has the worst, but I don't. This is my home, and I love it. Had I been born and raised anywhere else, I'd be complaining about it too.
The media tries to give an image of a backwards society and barbarians who happen to have gotten oil rich. And you are naive enough to believe them.
I read saudi newspapers every *single* day since I was in the fifth grade, and I have NEVER ever read about someone being beheaded
ubergirl - when I lived in Riyadh there were beheadings every Friday. The names and pictures of the people being beheaded (usually for supposedly smuggling drugs) where published in the paper. Crowds gathered at "Chop Chop Square" down by the old King's (ibn Saud) Palace to watch. The same thing goes on in Jeddah. Public Friday flogging are also very common.
Here is a Saudi blogger who is not in denial - you should check her out: Alien Memoirs. You should also try to read some of your own Saudi newspapers. Or some of the other Gulf newspapers which are more free to publish what is really going on with the Saudi justice system.
Frankly, I don't know why you take criticism of your country so personally. Do the barbaric practices of keeping women as though they were children or slaves, the public floggings and cutting off of hands ("only" after 3 times - man!), etc etc have anything to do with you? Now? Then why run from the truth.
FYI - if the AMERICAN Press had not investigated, discovered and printed the stories about Abu Ghraib and Guantanamo, no would would no about them. There is more criticism in the American Press about the American Government than every where else, which is why American soldiers are going to prison (but are not being beheaded) for very long sentences for the crimes in Abu Ghraib. The most important part of democracy is the capacity and the willingness ot criticize your own leaders, country and culture.
Here are some US blogs extremely critical of the US:
http://www.huffingtonpost.com
http://www.firedoglake.com
http://www.digbysblog.blogspot.com
Just because these people write angrily about what is wrong with their country, does not mean they "hate" it.
Calling the truth a lie just makes you look stupid ... & i don't think that is true about you. But you need to open your eyes, if you really want to see the truth.
Fror: I only called anything a lie because I had never heard of it. I am very critical of Saudi Arabia and anyone who reads my blog will tell you that.
However, I (just like anyone else) will get deffensive whenever someone says things that are not true.
I found out some things George listed are true. Some.
But all the things concerning women are not.
A woman's word is worth half a mans in court in Saudia Arabia and 'honour killings' are a problem in many muslim countries. Don't deny the truth just 'cause you don't like it.
There was a man beheaded. He was drugged and pulled out of the back of a pick up truck. They had him kneel and then removed his head from his shoulders. When this was done, they placed stones around the pool of blood and set his shoes on the outside of the circle.
Ubergirl, I have the honor of being very close friends with a good Saudi family. None of what I have said is a falsehood. Your own Quran says of men to beat their wives if they misbehave. Do you deny this as well?
If a man wants his children, he can take them. The boy as young as 2, the girl at 8, or even before that. You assume that all "Westerners" are so ignorant.
You live in a bubble ubergirl. As a Saudi female your freedoms are very limited as to the choices you get to make in your life. I, as a westerner in your country have more freedom than you shall ever have as a citizen.
Saudi isn't all bad. It has a great deal of charm if you look in the right places and its people aren't all evil monsters intent on blowing up the universe.
You are so eager to point out the wrong doings in other people's countries but have a temper tantrum when your own countries short comings are pointed out.
Have a bar of chocolate, a nap and smile. The sun will rise again tomorrow.
Wow... who knew that one post could be so controversial. Anyhoo...
To ubergirl: Firstly, apologies for making a surprise appearance without even introducing myself, that was rude of me. I'm Pan, you can follow the link to my blog where you'll be mentally scarred for life, and I've been stalking your blog for a while. ADORE you btw ^_^
To everyone else: What ubergirl was saying in her post was that she finds it unfair (and I agree) how some people put animal rights before human rights, and she quite rightly listed examples of these cases.
I have never lived in Saudi, I don't know much about it and neither do I pretend to. But I do agree that each country has its problems and also its wrong accusations. I do agree with some of the things the anonymouses said, about learning to not deny things which are true, but I also don't believe in media manipulation and exaggeration of true facts.
For that, I respect and admire ubergirl because she does recognise her country's problems (and had you read her entire blog you would know) and is at times critical of them, as is everyone of their own country, but she also stands up for her beliefs and should not be penalised for loving her country.
With that, I leave...
Curious George why do you keep making personal and patronising remarks. Have you lived in Saudi too long? You forgotten how to talk to a girl without being rude?
is that a saudi talkin to that curious george? they wrote the book on how to be rude to women.
George: You can talk about beheadings and beatings all you want.
But you know NOTHING about my life or my family, so I'd appreciate it if you stopped saying my father will sell me to the highest bidder and that I don't have any freedom.
Also, I never said ALL Westerners are ignorant.
Pan: Thanks :)
Where did I say your father would sell you to the highest bidder? Where did I say I knew about your life? Where did I say you have no freedom? Perhaps a little college would go a long way for you considering you can't seem to read postings very well. I'm sure your father would give you his permission to continue your education if you asked him nicely.
"You live in a bubble ubergirl. As a Saudi female your freedoms are very limited as to the choices you get to make in your life. I, as a westerner in your country have more freedom than you shall ever have as a citizen."
And you did once say that my father will sell me to the highest bidder.
You're very rude.
If you're gonna keep attacking me personally I'd rather you not visit my blog anymore.
You know, if I want I can be just as rude as you are. But I don't need to be. When you're saying those things it just proves to everyone how big of a jerk you are. I am really tired of arguing with you. How would you know anything about my freedoms or my choices? You did imply that all women in Saudi Arabia don't have any freedom at all and that's not true.
This is getting very boring, George. And quite frankly I don't have the time to keep arguing with you over everything.
My point is: be nicer or keep your opinions to yourself.
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