Sunday, April 09, 2006

Ubergirl Sheds Some Light On Demonic Possession.

I was just listening to my little cousin tell a story about a woman who kept shouting "Damn you demons! Quit possessing me!"

Here in Saudi Arabia people still believe that when someone goes crazy, they are most likely possessed.
I am even sure most of the Saudis reading this are thinking I'm crazy for not believing.
To answer the question I know you're asking yourself; I believe in Black Magic, but I do not believe in possession.

Let's ponder this for a moment.
The Arabic word for crazy is Majnoon. The closest I can get to the word demon in Arabic is Jinni.
Clearly one is derived from the other.
What I'm trying to say, is that for a very long time, possession and the loss of one's mind have been undoubtedly linked.

As recently as 50 years ago, people did not understand the concept of craziness. They immediately went to their Sheikh so that he could read Quraan and cure their possesed relative.
I'm not saying the Quraan isn't theraputic or that it would be useless in curing anything.
I'm just saying that 50 years ago, people did not know what mental illness was, so it is understandable that they believed in possesion. There was no other possible explanation back then.

But now there is.
Personality disorders are commonly mistaken for demonic possession:

Paranoid Personality Disorder refers to a “pervasive distrust and suspiciousness of others such that their motives are interpreted as malevolent.”

Schizotypal Personality Disorder refers to a “pervasive pattern of social and interpersonal deficits marked by acute discomfort with, and reduced capacity for, close relationships as well as by cognitive or perceptual distortions and eccentricities of behavior.”

Dependent Personality Disorder refers to a “pervasive and excessive need to be taken care of that leads to submissive and clinging behavior and fears of separation.” (Most people here mistake DPD for the nanny putting a curse on a child so that he likes her more than his parents, or whatever.)

And ofcourse, there is MPD. (Multiple Personality Disorder.)
You can imagine what people think of that. (Que flashbacks from The Exorcism Of Emily Rose.)

Please think about it before you blow up on me.



jason said...

Interesting post ubergirl I agree it is a mental illness/personality disorder. So what personality disorder do you think you have if any?

What does "please think about it before you blow up on me" mean?

agger said...

Personality disorders are often mistaken for demonic possession, you write;

yea, but must we not watch out we don't mistake demonic possession for personality disorders?

I'm not really joking here - think of places like Haiti or Brazil, where spirit possession (they don't call them demons, they call them loa or orixás) is part of the local religions.

I'm really arguing to be pragmatical here: If we can "cure" somebody seemingly possessed by acting as if he were, well, then he possibly is; if not, it's probably a personality disorder and should be treated as such. And so we get the best of both (conceptual) worlds, right?

ubergirl87 said...

I personally don't believe in demonic possession, however in our culture everything from supposed possession to a common cold is treated with the recital of Quraan. So either way we'd have taken all precautions.

taqo said...

I believe in both. Alot of people have disorders, but at the same time, some people do get possesed, It happened to a friend of mine. No joke. Talk about freaky.

What about that thing that shabab do here (forgot what its called), if im not mistaken, they like go out to the desert, and start dancing, like they are mad. Jumping really high up in the air, zay el "majaneen" 3la golathum ;p
It like jumps from one dude to another..something like that? :s

Hani said...

Most of us agree that jinni is there, and we also agree and admit that Black Magic is also there, right? So, what if a certain jinni was able to apply some black magic on a human… some how. Shouldn’t we consider this as demonic possession?

I think it exists, and it is way different than Personality Disorder.

ubergirl87 said...

Taq I know what you're talking about.. I forgot what it's called though, lol. I'll come up with it eventually and let you know.

The 4rth Dimention: As I said in my post and previous comment, I do not believe in demonic possession. Black magic is harming someone else metally or physically in ways that are not known to us. It is not in any way possession, people often think the two go hand in hand.

Hani said...

Dont demons control humans... Mentally at least?! if you agree on that, then you should agree that they can have physical effects on humans as well!


FR33DOM said...

How can you beleive in black magic, but not belive in possesion? Both are equally stupid. Well, i know WHY you do, growing up in a society that accepts it as fact, but c'mon, when have you ever seen anything supernatural? Where is the proof.
We know why people go crazy, either that suffer extreme emotional conditions that break down normal thinking proccesers, or they have a familiy history of mental illness, etc.

How common is this beleif in demons Saudi Arabia at the moment?

ubergirl87 said...

The 4th Dimention: I don't belive demons control human neither physically nor mentally.

rog3r: I have never seen anything supernatural, but black magic isn't necessecarily supernatural, and it isn't necessarily something you see.
You, like many other people, seem to know nothing about either, so I don't see how you can call anything stupid.

Dostish said...

taqwa/ubergirl: I think you are reffering to Al-Zar, basically what happens is the crazy shabab in the desert start dancing like crazy, and a jini comes and starts jumping from one shabab to the other, that's what makes the shabab jump really high up in the air :P lool a friend of mine has proof of this on's quite amusing, actually.

ubergirl87 said...

And the Jinni can defy gravity or make someone lighter?
Share the footage, please :)
We can all us e a good laugh!

Mystique said...

I have a friend who is a shrink, believe it or not he told me that MOST of the patients visit him after they go to the Sheikh, believing that it might be "seher","evil eye" or any other stupidty..
and he has to spend so many sessions, just convincing the patient, that this doesn't exist..
Well, I don't know if this is lack of knowledgy, or ignorance, or contradiction or even stupidty.. as I ALWAYS say, Saudi Arabia,,, Land of Contradiction


L'Etranger said...

Few educated people outside of Arabia believe in magic or in demonic possession. Although the traditions exist elsewhere, they are seen as quaint delusions of the very ignorant, at best. This is a very local Saudi phenomenon you are discussing, but it is an interesting cultural insight for the rest of us. Go on.

Anonymous said...

Fellow Humans:
The crafty clerics have lied to us through the ages. We must rise above the pall of superstition. Humanity was enslaved long enough. Consider if you will, that ALL the world religions deliberately attempted to extirpate the spread and growth of science. Kept humans in the dark, literally and figuratively for hundreds of years. Their only excuse was that they spoke to god. Humans were foolish/gullible enough to fall for it.

Case in point:

Ask your "soul" for proof of its' existence, and the only thing you will hear is all the crap that was shoved down your throat as a child, when we were all the most vulnerable; and unable to speak for ourselves. The famous retort is: It's our tradition, don't question it. Now consider this if you will: If the so called "adults" can NOT present any proof of understanding, how can you expect a child to be discerning enough to understand ? Furthermore, the truth is that your geographical disposition dictates the terms of which "religion" will be your tradition. Why would god need to play hide and seek with its' children, and, on top of that; present [itself] with a plethora of different names and guises?

What we have created for ourselves are engines of fear, hate, and separation. Where "Arabs" hate and fear the Western society. Whites have created their own demon {JC} which in turn makes whites, browns, and asians hate the "Arabs" . If religion was a solution, why has there been SO MUCH bloodshed in the name of their little demon ?????

Anonymous said...

I don't know where you guys are getting your information from, most "mental illnesses" are based on such spurious evidence.

The WHO run by the U.N. did a study on schizophrenia and found that it was a lifetime sentence for those who are treated by western standards, and momentary for those of 3rd world or less "developed" countries.

Psychiatry IS a new religion; and a self fulfilling prophesy.The treatments can be so horrendous as to create the very problems that are said to exist as the reason for the treatment in the first place.I.E. if someone is poisoned, do you give them water, or more poison?

If you have time investigate the atrocities exemplified by psychiatry, trans-orbital lobotomy,Electro convulsive therapy, Deep sleep therapy.Being forced biologically to forget (ECT,DST) is brainwashing in effect,and doesn't remove the symptoms of trauma, just makes you forget what caused it.

Being paranoid (or more likely hyper alert) is normal for one who has experienced strained conditions,many of these typings are normal reactions when placed in their context.

According to buddhist theory the only one you can really know is yourself, and even that is considered a delusion.That makes alot of sense, so why pay a "professional" of a pseudo science to tell you reality?

Having died and been resuscitated, I know spirit exists, if mine does, why wouldn't others;maybe those people aren't so good,so they're called demons or jinni.If someone can impose their will on you as a living being, either black magick or brainwashing; why is it impossible to think it of spirit?

The spirit of the Loa of Haiti are considered demonic by catholics, but its really intersting to read the personality descriptions of these "spirits" and then see them amongst the people you know, particularly the ones seeing shrinks!

I find this topic of discussion fascinating, but with the advent of psychiatry,this is the kind of conversation one ONLY has online, and anonymously so, as more and more people fight for their freedom of speech, so envied by everyone else not in the U.S. (including me),the more that speech is curbed by psychiatry.

Don't mistake what I say, here in Austalia the DSM IV criteria disorganised speech can mean changing the subject of a conversation that you do not wish to have,flattened effect can be exactly the same.Annoyed is aggresive behaviour etc.

Psychiatrists literally have the legal right to take you of the street and lock you up for 6 months or so at a time; by the time you figure out that being annoyed is aggresive,avoiding conversation to avoid becoming annoyed is flattened effect, your discomfort with interaction with your "doctor" is discomfort with social settings,and after 6 months or so your stockholm syndrome is dependence, VIOLA your schizophrenic!


By the time you realise all this, your a conspiracy theorist; and the cycle starts all over again!

The worst torture inflicted by the Nazi's in WWII was commited by a man named Joseph Mengels, a psychiatrist.

If you think lobotomies, ECT and DST are things of a bygone era, you are WRONG!After all Bio psychiatry has only really been practised for 70 or 80 years at most, and still struggles to justify its existence, and only does so on extremely spurious grounds at best.

If reality cant be measured precisely, as obviously it can't; then psychiatry is definently a pseudo science that pre-supposes that one persons experience is more valuable than anothers.

Believe in whatever you want, but don't intrude on my reality!