I hate "people" who "use" quotation "marks" "extensivley." They come off "idiotic." You "know" who "I" am talking about.
You "do."
In other news, I had so much fun reading the comments on my last post. They were "amusing."
Okay I'll "stop."
Seriously. I got a couple of comments from... interesting characters. I've decided I'm going to be positive and not point out the incredible contradictions some people choose to implement in their sentences.
I hope one day it all becomes clear to them.
I am not anti-Islam. I am not anti-any religion. What people choose to believe is extremely personal. It is their relationship with their creator, or whom-ever they worship. It is not meant to be paraded around and when it is, I personally lose a lot of respect for them (the paraders).
And that is why I will never again address the subject of my personal beliefs on this blog, or anywhere else.
And neither should anyone else. (Mention my beliefs or cast me off as an "infidel", as someone lovingly implied in a comment.) It is hillarious that you think you are in any position to make that call. Like it's all up to you.
You reaaallyy are into yourself, huh?
Couldn't help it.
Back to positivity.
Some people comment for the sake of proving... something. Possibly that they can type. I'm not too sure.
Let us all revel in this gem of an opinion:
Anonymous said...
This is a typical bull of an upper middle class kid (woman) who starts to rant, and rebel against everything that her country and culture stands for. When in fact, you are not rebelling against your culture; you are rebelling against your religion. You started to take God for granted, those silly idiots from west who comments on your blog from the west trying to empower you, when in fact they are bringing you down to you eventual doom.
Wow. You got me.
I am trying to poison all the other crazy kids (women) with my Western thoughs and satanic beliefs.
Is it really that obvious?
Mona prank call this guy: 0555559191
And put his number up on AlWedd.
ubergirl
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25 comments:
Whatever you do, don't let that jerk deter you from saying what your feel. That's the entire purpose of what we're doing (blogging) isn't it? It's because we love Saudia that we want things to change for the better. Just a thought, do you suppose he goes cammando because underwear is a western concept?
Done.
Invent music, and dance DANCE.
Ignore them Ubergirl. There just haters. Your blog is interesting and funny.
"It is their relationship with their creator, or whom-ever they worship. It is not meant to be paraded around ..."
i agree. ppl who go around parading their self-righteous acts so ppl can see how oh-so-religious they are just come across as fake.
btw, i dont think there's a problem with u sharing ur personal beliefs on this blog. after all, it is your blog. =/
No-one likes to be personally attacked by any person (or persons), but i think that if u really want to understand the world then opposite and differing viewpoints should always be taken into consideration.
Anna: The thing is, since they're personal I'd rather not have to share them with anybody. It's not about hiding things from anyone, or anything. It's just what I think is right.
There is a huge difference between difference in view points and personal attacks, ren crow. I do respect any and all (sensible) opinions, but calling someone you don't know a privelidged ingnoramus is not sharing your opinion. It's sharing your idiocy. But that's just my opinion :-P
For God sake woman, get over yourself, why did my comment irked you so much??!! Is it because it hit all the right buttons, where in the whole comment did I resort to name-calling? Did I mention anything beside the obvious, did I call you an apostle, your hate for the religious establishment is very evident throughout your writing, while the RP might be rigid, and intrusive in their dealing with the public, but they are not enforcing man-made laws, these are God laws. For instance the veil, and the abaia, which you disdain so much, didn’t God who ordered women to cover up, or was it something that was invented by those long bearded men whom you despise so much. You seem so opinionated on all issues, yet you can’t take it when someone differs with you Queen Uber.
Have I known that your comment section was designed to be an actuall fan club where people leave praises, and accolades for you, I would have kept my humble, and “idiotic” comment to myself. Well at least I proved I could type. Long lives the Queen…
Hi Anonymous,
As you refer to “those silly idiots from west” and a “fan club” I assume its ok for me to reply my points of view as well. Your first posting actually attacked her as person, you made assumptions of how she lives her religious life and what she rebels against, and by writing “bringing you down to you eventual doom” you pretty much call her an infidel. This is why she reacted, and why others reacted. I can’t remember she have written much about her personal beliefs. In the contrary she has showed that she loves her country very much, but she can’t stand the fact that females are treated different than men. She can’t stand men telling her what she can and can’t do. She is crying out for respect and freedom to make her own choices and decisions. At least this is how I interpret her blog.
If you disagree with her and find the society of Saudi Arabia to be correct according to the Qur’an and haddith, than you should argument for this; instead of attacking her and putting words to her mouth.
As far as I have seen she have problems accepting religious establishment (made by men) not religion itself.
Again for my interpretations:
I will say that I understand Ubergirl very well. She is sick and tired of men deciding everything for her. She is sick and tired of RP misusing their power. She believes she is perfectly capable of making decisions herself. She want male and female treated equally, where no sex is better than the other.
As far as I have read about clothing; there is more than one way to cover beauty. You can still cover your beauty without being in black all the time. She wants variation and originality. I don’t think it’s expected that females are supposed to cover themselves exactly like woman they did in while Muhammed (pbuh) lived. I can’t recall anyplace its said in detail how they are supposed to cover them selves.
Neither can I recall to have read any place that females unable to take care of themselves and are supposed to be “slaves” of the society and men. I would think it would be better if woman covered themselves of respect and love for God, and lived a respectable life with virtues because they love God, not because others decided how they are supposed to live and behave.
I haven’t seen any proves that females are more stupid or less capable to make decisions than men are.
I like reading Ubergirls blog and find it to inspire me to act against the injustice I see around me as well.
-Anonymous Norwegian-
(PS: she commented someone’s writing skills; not typing skills)
Wow, I am the second Norwegian to comment here:) Perhaps because ubergirl was recently mentioned in Norwegian media.
First of all, ubergirl I want to give you all my support. I find it interesting to read your blog. Although I just discovered it. It is interesting to read about a world we know so little about in the West.
But I must confess it is beyound my comperhension how you and other Saudi women mange to live in this cage. Don't you want to leave? Move to another country? Or is it that you would miss your friends and family too much?
I am a male but I must confess I find it extremely provocative what the saudi guy you quoted said. It is hard not to lose ones temper. Even his new comment to you reeks of disrespect for women: "For God sake woman, get over yourself"
To me that makes it sound like women are just some sort of irrational stupid things that can't control themselves.
I thought long about what to say further but decided not to say anything else. I don't want to bad mouth you country. Because I am sure you love it in many ways. But the way they treat women just angers me so much.
LOL. Ooh, anonymous, you're good.
Got me again. Really.
Firstly, you called my opinion "bull" (which i classify as a PERSONAL ATTACK)last time, and now you are all for "having your own opinion" and are accusing me of being opinionated and treating this comments section like a fan club. (Is that why I delete all the comments I don't agree with, like.... yours? Please think. And try to be respectful. I know how hard it is for you to respect someone who has a uterus, but try. Or pretend to.)
I would call that contradiction #1. If you think I'm opinionated it's only because YOU are.
Secondly, you imply that all women act like children (or was it all middle class women?) I wish I could say "that was the most sexist thing I've ever heard," but I'd be lying. I wish.
Nevertheless, INCREDIBLY sexist. And incredibly wounding your credibility and that of anything you say.
Thirdly, Do you know me personally?
No?
How, then, did you conclude that I am rebelling against MY religion? I could be atheist (which I'm not. Keep your socks on.)
You have absolutely no right to dictate my religion! No one has that right. If you choose to be just an average sheep in the herd and go along with anything and everything those YOU crowned your religious leaders say, that is your choice. And there's absolutely nothing wrong with that. But it's not for me. And you should respct that. (Or, again, pretend to.)
I take God for granted:
Same argument as the one above only with slight alterations. (I am not in the mood and quite frankly someone such as yourself is not worth the time nor the effort.)
And what silly Western idiots? Most of the comments I get are from Saudis. Both male and female, and not all are positive.
Why are you so scared of the West empowering women? Is it that it's from the West (and is therefore evil) that bothers you? Or is it that you don't want women - sorry, children - to be empowered, period?
I will not further discuss my religious beliefs with you. They belong to me, and me alone.
I will however, ask you this:
Since there are differences in ahkam regarding covering one's face, doesn't that mean that it's up to each of us (the women, I mean) to make our own choices? Isn't there a Hadith that states that that is what one SHOULD do?
And where on earth did God ask women to wear BLACK ABAYAS? There is no specific color or shape of a Hijab.
THINK, I BEG OF YOU.
I could speak volumes on each of the things I have discussed above. You are quite obviously someone who will not take me seriously, because I am a woman. A girl.
And that's fine. I'm done trying to change anyone.
One more thing, you didn't push the right buttons. I posted your comment because it's funny to people like me.
I have no right buttons anymore. I've just about heard it all. I'm immune.
Creepy,huh?
But I do know all your right buttons, anon :)
Anonymous Norwegian you took the words right out of my mouth :)
And thank you for your support and respect, erik.
Uber,
You let the cat out of the bag. One of the MAIN problems with the Muslim community now at days, especially in Saudi, is that so many people confuse their culture with the religion.
A good chunk of what is passed off as "culture" in places like Saudi directly contradicts the religion. People automatically think if they come from an "Islamic" country then their culture must all be based on Islam.
This couldnt be more false.
The greatest threat to Islam today comes from idiots like this. They can preach and tell you how their Islam is the best, never mind their leaders, both religious and governmental, are well known hypocrites, drunkards, alcoholics and rapists.
Look at Saudi, if everything culture there is Islamic, does that mean letting your young son have sex with the maid is Islamic? That certainly seems to be part of Saudi culture now. How about sex trips to Southeast Asia? Bringing home AIDS to your wife and the maid? Beating your maids? Gay marriages in Medina? Drunks and addicts in Mecca? Sheiks who exorcise "jinn" from young women with their private parts? The Religious Police following women to get phone numbers and trying to hook up for sex?
Hah, this is the country of Islam? Sounds like a Jerry Springer show, but this is Saudi was we know it.
Amazing how people want to pass of their corrupt culture as religion.
Trust me, the idiots cating judgement on your are most likely the worst of the worst. They is why they have to judge others, to avoid from looking at their own dirty selves.
Islam is the best religion, it jsut has the worst followers, as one great man once said. Ignore the idiots. You only have one worry and that is Allah, the others can rot.
Abu Sinan, I'm not a fan of my country, but the way you brought up the examples you make it seem it's a way of life here.
abu sinan wrote:
"Look at Saudi, if everything culture there is Islamic, does that mean letting your young son have sex with the maid is Islamic? That certainly seems to be part of Saudi culture now. How about sex trips to Southeast Asia? Bringing home AIDS to your wife and the maid? Beating your maids? Gay marriages in Medina? Drunks and addicts in Mecca? Sheiks who exorcise "jinn" from young women with their private parts? The Religious Police following women to get phone numbers and trying to hook up for sex?"
At first glance one might be shocked to read this blanket statement, a full indictment of a whole society, then you look at the author of these words, and you realize the its non other than abu sinan, a man well known for the for his hatred of Saudi society, and the Saudi government. The fact that this delusional man freely put this disgusting garbage in a Saudi blog, unchallenged, is truly amazing.
Anonymous,
I hate all of Saudi society? Really? Considering I am married to a Saudi there must be some portions of it I dont hate right?
Notice you choose to attack me rather than address the issues I brought up. Do you dispute that any of these things happen?
In certain sections of Saudi this stuff is a way of life, as much so as it is in the USA. Some of you people seem to think Saudi is exempt from these things!
The divorce rate is 50% in Saudi, AIDS rates are skyrocketing, but no one knows just how bad it is as the government wants to ignore the issue. 4,100 litres of win found the other day, drunks leading police on chases around the Kabbah in Mecca.
Drug addicts memorise portions of The Qur'an to get out of prison early so they can go buy more drugs again. Prostitution in Mecca, Medina, Jeddah, gay marriages in Medina.
Saudi is NO different than any other country. They have the same exact issues, the very same problems. The only difference is that people try so hard to cover it up.
Why? Because Saudi is the home of Islam? Sure it is, but that doesnt mean that people in Saudi are exempt from the issues that everyone else has. When you deny these facts you then add hypocrisy to the mix as well.
It is hatred to point out that Saudi is no different than the USA or the West? Give me a break. Saudi kids are dating, having sex, drinking and doing drugs just like any other country. There are well known places in Riyadh where people go to have sex.
Saudi is EXACTLY like any other country, the sooner you come to grips with it the sooner the issues can be addressed.
Yay for someone finally pointing out that the Middle East is no different than the USA for all those morality police out there who love to rave and rant about the terrible, immoral West. I said that one time when I was talking about my country (somewhere in the Middle East) and some guy told me I was a self-hater LOL.
People really need to get over their denial issues. Seriously people.
And on a side note I must ask what is the deal with the black abayas in Saudi? Is there something wrong with color? Does color lead to sin?
Forgive me, perhaps it's my American / MBA impulse here, but could you (abu sinan) cite any media reports / WHO (UN) reports or statistics that would back up your claims?
I know many in the world probably think that we (in West) are all over this stuff when we see it, but I'm pretty skeptical (I do believe that some of you probably do go on those desert drives with the women in one car and men in the other since not only have I seen it on the news, but heard about it from people from the country). I would grant that we all suffer from the human condition, but presumably, a government stands because people nominally conclude they are better off with it than without it -- and as such, it reflects some core cultural values of the society it serves. Thus, these reports surprise me. And I had rather thought that obtaining a divorce was somewhat difficult there (for everyone involved). Promiscuity with maids doesn't surprise me (frequent issue around the world -- didn't the French start diddling their maids first?) but some of these other issues do. Hence, my request for documentation.
Of course, obviously, illicit activity is never accurately documented (we can only look at arrest records, and in some places, even those are state secrets) but presumably, this would be covered somewhere (or a law would be passed referencing it).
Perhaps I'm full of it -- and this is my first comment. But if you want me around, I'll register... Eventually.
Here in Saudi, we don't need UN reports or WHO to back up Abu Sinan's claim. All we need to do is open our eyes. I've said it before on other blogs and I'll say it a thousand times more....who needs documentation for what we see with our own eyes and/or experience first hand. Many of us have noticed that 'special' sometimes strangely labelled or unlabeled ward in the hospitals for AIDS patients. How many divorced people do we know or have heard of? There's a guy that lives across the street from us, we always joke that he's back from Club Med whenever he gets out of prison again for his drugs and drinking charges. And prostitution, one just needs to look around the souk for that.
Is there a huge issue of denial in this country, definitely. But the comments have all digressed from the original issue and this is a topic for a whole other blog post, if not an academic study. And yes, the country is full of what I call ‘cultural Muslims’, those who think everything in their culture is OK and Islamic because it’s from a culture composed of Muslims (practicing or not). Although I don’t agree with some things Ubergirl says, I won’t attack her personally for it but rather, open an intelligent and respectful dialogue. As the saying goes, “you attract more flies with honey than with vinegar”.
Anonymous,
You actually think the Saudi establishment would allow the UN to do a study in the KSA of sexually transmitted diseases? Oh....were you joking? I dont know.
No one who knows Saudi would even ask such a question.
Arrest records and the like? Again, you are joking right? You are approaching the KSA like you would a country like the UK or Germany. It just doesnt hold water.
The KSA would never allow such a study to be done even if they kep comprehensive, national wide databases on such statistics. What? Do a study that shows that the KSA has problems just like ANY OTHER COUNTRY? God forbid.
Dont you know that the KSA is the home of the two holy shrines? Hence there is little or no crime, all women are virgins, all men are nice to their maids and domestic help, STDs dont exist because every one is chaste and virtuous.
Q: Of course, obviously, illicit activity is never accurately documented (we can only look at arrest records, and in some places, even those are state secrets) but presumably, this would be covered somewhere (or a law would be passed referencing it).
A: Arrest records and the like? Again, you are joking right? You are approaching the KSA like you would a country like the UK or Germany. It just doesnt hold water.
Sorry. Actually, I was approaching it like I would any modern nation state. Believe me, someone there knows, but that information is classified or suppressed (you mention some plausible reasons as to why). So, it's state secrets again. sigh
Cultural/legal question: Is having HIV/AIDS a crime in the KSA?
Anyway, according to this report: http://data.unaids.org/pub/EpiReport/2006/10-Middle_East_and_North_Africa_2006_EpiUpdate_eng.pdf
Inadequate HIV surveillance in many countries of this region makes it difficult to discern the patterns and trends of their diverse epidemics—especially among most-at-risk groups such as injecting drug users, sex workers and men who have sex with men.
(Okay, so the MBA in me says, why bother publishing the report in the first place?)
The one paragraph on Saudi Arabia says:
In Saudi Arabia, almost half (46%) of reported HIV cases have been attributed to unprotected sex. There, two thirds (67%) of all HIV cases have been reported in three cities: Jeddah, Riyadh and Damman (Al-Mazrou et al., 2005).
The one source they cite is: Al-Mazrou YY et al. (2005). HIV/AIDS epidemic features and trends in Saudi Arabia. Annals of Saudi Medicine, 25(2)100:104.
Significant that 33% are presumably spread out over other areas.
Perhaps I should be surprised that I could find even that much data?
The larger issue, then, for your opponents, is the lack of finesse such a gap in the data suggests. The absence of the data raises a question and creates a vacuum. A vacuum that is then filled, since I have no other sources, with what you tell me -- thus, your (Abu Sinan and Saudi Stepford Wife) view becomes legitimate (So, Anonymous.0 loses since he can't rebut).
Anyway, my request for documentation was not intended as a challenge.
And I do agree that you're in a sorry state of affairs when you don't have any data to understand the social / demographic topography of the problems you face. Apparently, your government has decided you're better off not knowing. I'm sorry to hear that. Though, given the state of technological change and the pace with which information moves in this world, that situation can't stay the same forever.
Your transition may be bumpy though. (I suppose that's what all this railing against "modernity" is all about?)
Stay on the air. I'm listening, at least. And sorry this got off topic.
Another norwegian signing in.
Keep up the good work ubergirl. I've read your blog before, but lost the adress when I got a new computer. Finally found it again as a norwegian before me here did, via norwegian media.
As a free woman, it's hard to comprehend how it must be for those who are less free. You give me hope though. If only the saudi men kan realize how it is like for you... And all others who have the same strict rules for women.
Agree fully with the former commenter about the motivation for covering oneself up. It should be for the love of Allah, and not because someone forces you too. I believe he would be more pleased with that. (And pardon me if I've been unrespectful in how I expressed myself here.)
I've often felt that the reason you women have to be hidden, is so that men won't sin by being aroused by you. And I would think it doesn't take much for those who never gets to see a lot of "exposed" women to get to that state. In my country, I think most men don't even notice the women walking down the street, hair wawing and all.
Well.. that's just some words from a probably too immoral woman from Norway. Doubt I changed any religious mind by my comment, but I just had to write something.
Respectfully yours,
"Helen"
"For instance the veil, and the abaia, which you disdain so much, didn’t God who ordered women to cover up, or was it something that was invented by those long bearded men whom you despise so much."
Ah...actually, God did not order women to cover up in the Quran. And the abaya? Beduin tradition. NOT the word of God.
God ordered modesty in The Qur'an. What, exactly, is modest, is and has been up for debate.
Absolutely, AS.
I hate "people" who "use" quotation "marks" "extensivley." They come off "idiotic." You "know" who "I" am talking about.
You "do."
In other news, I had so much fun reading the comments on my last post. They were "amusing."
Okay I'll "stop."
Seriously. I got a couple of comments from... interesting characters. I've decided I'm going to be positive and not point out the incredible contradictions some people choose to implement in their sentences.
I hope one day it all becomes clear to them.
I am not anti-Islam. I am not anti-any religion. What people choose to believe is extremely personal. It is their relationship with their creator, or whom-ever they worship. It is not meant to be paraded around and when it is, I personally lose a lot of respect for them (the paraders).
And that is why I will never again address the subject of my personal beliefs on this blog, or anywhere else.
And neither should anyone else. (Mention my beliefs or cast me off as an "infidel", as someone lovingly implied in a comment.) It is hillarious that you think you are in any position to make that call. Like it's all up to you.
You reaaallyy are into yourself, huh?
Couldn't help it.
Back to positivity.
Some people comment for the sake of proving... something. Possibly that they can type. I'm not too sure.
Let us all revel in this gem of an opinion:
Anonymous said...
This is a typical bull of an upper middle class kid (woman) who starts to rant, and rebel against everything that her country and culture stands for. When in fact, you are not rebelling against your culture; you are rebelling against your religion. You started to take God for granted, those silly idiots from west who comments on your blog from the west trying to empower you, when in fact they are bringing you down to you eventual doom.
Wow. You got me.
I am trying to poison all the other crazy kids (women) with my Western thoughs and satanic beliefs.
Is it really that obvious?
Mona prank call this guy: 0555559191
And put his number up on AlWedd.
ubergirl
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